Ever Consider Keeping Honey Bees?

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

This is the beginning of my third year of keeping honey bees...

Though I am studying them at every turn and have joined the Northwestern Beekeepers Association, I'm far from an expert. Want an eye opener? Rent, buy or borrow the video "Silence of the Bees"... it's very telling. I also travelled with the PA Region One Honey Bee Inspector to document honey bee hive conditions.. You can see those photos on this web page: http://www.frederickdunn.com/photoprojects.html please scroll down to the bottom of this web page.

Also, the good old book, Silent Spring, could have been written last year, considering its description and warnings of and about our honey bee populations. Most of those on this site are concentrated on growing fruits and veggies. Ever consider how many of those you would have without the honey bee?

I'm fortunate enough to be currently involved in a bee research program. This deals with survivor bees, those which survive year after year, without chemical treatments, nor anti-biotics. Large apiaries have so much invested in their colonies, that they can't be convinced to allow a die-off, in order to continue with the survivors (naturally stronger lines of bees). So, they treat-treat-treat, with apistan and everything possible, to keep bees from the varroa mites and other diseases, resulting in a weaker honey bee line. I don’t need to keep up on all the latest synthetic treatments, if I use none of them.

This year, I have hives with the VSH (Varroa Sensitive Hygiene) queens and workers. They come from stock, completely free of chemical intervention. If they discover “any” issue with one of their hive mates, they remove them immediately… there-in lies their defense. Hygienic bees don’t allow mites nor other invaders and they groom a lot!

A stronger, naturally resistant line of honey bees should be the end result.
Why am I writing about this in Patti’s forum? Well… the benefits to the gardener are obvious annnd, there is of course, the honey factor, the bees wax benefit annnd I personally feel, that it’s important to get bee keeping back into the hands of the back yard apiary hobbyist and out of the hands of BIG BEE INDUSTRY…
Colony Collapse disorder (CCD) remains under research/investigation… Here at Penn State, Diana Cox-Foster, professor of entomology, reports a strong correlation between CCD and the presence of Israeli acute paralysis virus, making the pathogen a prime suspect in the disease. There are of course many other management issues involved.
I would love to hear from others who are caring for honey bees on their property and how they are doing?
I write this now, as it’s important, if you are considering a start up colony, you’ll want to place your honey bee orders soon. You order your spring honey bees during winter so you will be certain to get some. They do sell out of package bees each year. There is a shortage!
Here is my short video of honey bee installation… so you can see how they come in the mail as packages. Honey bees are sold by the pound!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F33-fbeammU
So, what say you… let’s talk honey bees! I love studying honey bees!

[herb girl]

Excellent post Fred,

Yes! We just built our hives and will be hopefully getting a split from a friend in the spring. We also joined the Franklin county bee keepers association.

They had a banquet this month and the speaker was a man from PA that breeds queens that are "organic". (Forgive my terminology, I'm just getting into this). Anyway, they artificially breed the queens and they are then resistant to the problems currently plaguing the bees in CCD. here's his site: http://www.vpqueenbees.com/ii.html His hives have been completely organic/sustainable for over 10 years. He has very little problem with CCD.

What book would you recommend for sustainable bee-keeping?

We are so excited to be starting this journey and fortunately our daughter has a mentor to help her. Omar has been keeping bees for 60 of his 75 years on earth and he's been a wonderful teacher. Following in someones footsteps is such an important part of the learning process.

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

I wonder if the man who came and talked to your association about the VSH line of bees was my friend.... John McKullup? He's making queens and does the whole deal with breeding and culturing from his parent stock of super hygienic stock. He calls himself a "hobbyist on steroids"... is that the guy?

The queens he purchased cost him around $150.00 each, as they are of the experimental VSH line...

And yes.. it's great to follow in someone else's foot steps. In this area.. my little town, the big bee guy is stubborn, is very old and doesn't believe in using survivor bees and he treats with everything under the sun.. very frustrating to talk with him... I'm glad you found an experienced man who is at least looking forward.

Awesome!!

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

No, that's not John M.
He's not profiting from the new resistent queens... he's just getting them out to as many apiaries as possible so the results can be wide and varied, with reports coming from several locations... that site you posted is offering custom insemination services... interesting though.

[herb girl]

oops, made a mistake, he's from MD not PA. His name is Adam Finkelstein I think. Check out his site and let me know what you think.

There are some in the bee-keepers association like the man you mentioned but I am amazed at the open mindedness of the majority of them.

I am really interested in obtaining a queen/survivor. Can't wait to get started.
I never knew until recently that an insect could cost so much!! :eek:

[herb girl]

Could you send me contact info. for John?
I'd like to line a queen up for the spring.

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

I know that John supplies the membership first I believe... but I will give you his info here, so others may also contact him for information and sourcing.

There are many other resources for "survivor" bees out there, depending on your geographical location.. closer is always better.

John McKellop III (the man who provided my queens and nucs) can be reached at: e-mail jam3@cescowildblue.com
John is conducting his own research, he raises summer queens for sale...

Here are some other resources for Survivor (NO treatment stock) strongly Hygienic and/or Varroa Resistant Stock:

Bee Weaver Apiaries
www.beeweaver.com

Norton's Honey Farm
www.mybeebusiness.com

Arnold Honeybee Services
www.arnoldhoneybeeservices.com

Here in Pennsylvania:
Bjorn Apiaries
www.bjornapiaries.com

Georgia
Purvis Brothers Apiaries, Inc.
www.purvisbrothersbees.com

WA
Olympic Wilderness Apiary
www.owa.cc

Vermont, Middlebury
(802) 758-2501 No internet, but will send you a nice pamphlet

Oregon
Old Sol Apiaries
www.oldsolenterprises.com

TN
Long Creek Apiaries
www.longcreekapiaries.com

This should get you and others on the right track, with wonderful honey bees!

[herb girl]

Thanks so much for those resources Fred!
I'm glad to hear that there are so many good ones (survivor bee's).
Bjorn is pretty close to us so hopefully we'll be able to get from them.

[gardengirl72]

Thanks guys for the helpful info! My neighbor and I planning on doing something next spring and Fred has some nice bee vids on his youtube channel.

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

Welcome to the world of backyard apiary science Patti!
I can't wait to see my favorite garden girl in her snappy new bee bonnet and bee keeper suit!

[plantoneonme]

I have always been fascinated by beekeeping and checked into it many years ago. Our city has really strick rules that bees cannot be any closer than 300 ft from ANY building. Well even when we had a 3/4 acre lot there was not one place to keep the bees so I gave up. I cannot keep bees but I can definetly encourage them to come to my yard. I have a wierd corner with a telephone pole about 3 ft off the fence that is really ugly and useless so this is where I am going to plant my bee attracting flowers next spring. I already have my wintersowing seeds and containers waiting to go and will dig up bee/butterfly loving plants from my old home. I am very lucky that I seem to have a nice number of bees this year that helped out my garden a lot....sure wish I could get some nice fresh honey and some comb to chew on while working out in the garden though.

Kim

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

I never heard of a rule such as having your hives so far from a building.

Mine are just 30 feet off the drive way and behind a detached garage. Just think of the inconvenience of tending the bees so far away? And tromping out there in winter to feed them? Oy Vey!

I am glad though, that you are thinking bee friendly with your plantings.

You're so right, nothing beats honey in the comb... what we call "chunk honey" around here. My son has a friend who is always around when honey is being drawn off... he eats my comb and spits it in the trash! When kids have a sore throat, nothing beats handing them a fresh cut comb to chew on, amazing what honey can treat.

I'm trying to think... even the largest apiary I visited, when travelling with the State Inspector, was only around 50 feet from the house... the only truly distant hives were those placed temporarily out in orchards.

That's such a bad regulation you have there... I can't imagine how they justified passing it.

[plantoneonme]

Our city has some very ridiculous rules such as trash cans MUST be behind the garage....only problem a neighbor got a ticket because she didn't even have a garage! They actually have people who go around and measure your lawn and if it hits 6" in any area of the yard....BAM another ticket. Sometime I feel like they think this is the Soviet Union and I am living on the wrong side of the wall.


Kim

[herb girl]

Yeah Patti,
Time for a BEE video!

[rdsaltpower]

I have thought about letting someone put some hives on my property and tending them since I dont know anything about them. I have enough land and the bees would sure be welcome to help pollinate my garden and the wife's flowers. All I would want in return would be a little fresh honey. We have a local beekeepers association in my area and I think I will attend a meeting soon and see what its all about. Who knows, I might find someone there willing to take me up on the offer!:)

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

Going to the bee keepers meeting sounds like a great start...

I know the guys that move their hives around here, do so when there is a large orchard, or some other large quantity of nector rich resource.

You might have a taker there. The hives which get moved a lot are often stressed. You always lose bees when you do that, as not every bee returns to the hive at night. Too bad you wouldn't be able to just set up your own hives. It's really not that difficult and the association will have some good ideas for you, along with someone who I'm certain would even come over and help set you up. I'm just a beginner and have already helped several people set up their own hives.

My hives are currently covered with snow... and thus begins the winter

[Kittikity]

I would be terrified to have a beehive in my yard.. Especially since my daughter is diabetic.. No idea what it would do to her blood sugar.. I know it would be a rush to the hospital and a big scare and stress for me.. Having said that, I do teach my kids not to mess with wasps nests and not to freak out if the occasional bee buzzes by.. I tell them if you leave them alone, they will leave you alone.. But a beehive would just be too many bees in one area and increase the chances of an accident.. I wouldn't be that worried with my boys with an occasional bee sting.. It hurts, but they'll be fine.. Just with my daughter since she's diabetic.. Otherwise I would look into it as another way to make/grow my own food..

[rdsaltpower]

Fred, any ballpark figures on setting up one hive, including Queen bee and workers? Just curious.

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

Here is a complete beginner bee keeper kit, all but the bees:

http://www.betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=219

Please see my other post, for where to obtain your queens and bees...
I promote only the untreated bee populations and hope you will go that way yourself?

[rdsaltpower]

Thanks for the help Fred, I will check out the sites.

[gardengirl72]

How much are the Bees Fred?

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

Hi Patti and welcome back!

Bee prices are wide ranging... and they change right along with good and bad seasons just like the crops they service...

Queens are available in different varieties, based on your needs and geographic location...

Expect to shell out for the queen alone, around $25.00 and another $25.00 for FedEx Shipping.

Then, for your package bees, which also include a queen. Expect to pay around $95.00 for a 5 pound package of bees. Plus shipping/handling. Some companies/apiaries, don't ship them, you must go and pick them up in person.

Nucs.. or nucleus bee frames, have queens, workers, drones and brood already in the frames (best start of all options in my opinion) and must be picked up personally.... check those out with your local bee keepers association. Expect to pay circa $95.00 for five frame nucs. You bring your own hive body and they put the nucs in it for you... then you return home, put the hive body on your hive set up and open it up the following morning. These nuc transfers are normally done after sunset so most of the bees are in the hive.

Prices vary widely... if you have a honey bee keeper near by who is having a great year, then you may talk them into splitting a particularly strong hive, but this is normally after the first flow.

Hope this helps....

[gardengirl72]

For some reason I thought it cost a bunch more. Thanks Fred!

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

As with your chickens and garden seeds...

Order bees early.

Apiaries take orders in winter for spring delivery... they will sell out and when you think you are ready, there will be none for your bee keeping venture.

As with chickens, you can order months before you are ready for them.

Don't wait... choose for your geographic area regarding hardiness and productivity.

[Garden Green]

Speaking of, how are your bees, Fred?

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

Ok, this has been a freaky winter, weatherwise that is...

Each hive was strong as temps fell and fall they did... we were hit with snow straight away and it's remained right through November.

Then, suddenly it soared into the 60's, melting everything off, causing regional flooding and sparking my honey bees to life! They were busy making cleaning flights and generally cleaning out their hives...

Then "snap!" temps plumeted to the 20's and teens, along with high winds. All hives have feeders on and the hives are humming. When the snow piles up on them, you can see tiny holes where the heat is escaping the hive and ventilation is happening (that's good).

Problem is, these intermediate warming situations are hard on the hive. When they all warm up and become active, they consume resources and expend more energy.

Remember, a worker's life is around 6 weeks and the queen needs 21 days to produce replacements. If it got cold and remained there, they have a better chance. This warming and cooling cycle will be harder on them.

Tomorrow, I'm going out with a stethascope to listen to each hive for humming strength... it's the best way I know of to determine their status without removing a cover.

Two days ago, the temps hit 51 degrees F. My smallest hive was flying everywhere.. . These are the survivor bees, super hygienic and VR... I worry more about small hives flying out before a real warming trend has set in.

I'll know more tomorrow.. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for asking!

Fred

www.FredsFineFowl.com

[crazy4yarnpamm]

Wow Fred, thank you for all the wonderful information. This is something I would love to look into. I think my boys would really like to do something like this. I will have to do more reading and maybe find someone local. We are in the Bay Area in California, just north of Berkeley.
Keep us posted on how your bees are doing.
Thanks so much
Pamm

[Backyard Permaculture]

I need to get back into bees again. I kept them for several years, up until June of 1988, then tried briefly to establish a hive about year 2000.

Now though, in AZ we have the africanized bees, but you know, they still make honey, and I love honey

Ron

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

I hope you do get back into backyard apiaries...

I had wanted to keep bees for many years and my wife convinced me that our son was alergic... truth was, she was actually afraid and he was fine.

Now that we have them, she's very excited about all the honey, wax and other benefits. The health claims related to raw honey are absolutely amazing. Here is some information I've posted regarding RAW Honey:

http://www.fredsfinefowl.com/myhoneybees.html

Ron, you mentioned the AK bees that now are found throughout our southwest border states... I've been down in Texas quite a bit and into Mexico... Rio Bravo (to be exact)... they are indeed amazingly angsty, BUT, as you mentioned, do a bang up job of producing lots of honey.

Last year I received a shipment of honey bees from down south. Honestly, the most aggressive and tencacious little rascals I've ever encountered. In Mexico I was handling the golden carapace tarantulas and know something about angsty critters. BUT, the good news is, they are wonderful producers and I don't feel bad about harvesting their honey when they are so unfriendly.

At this moment, three hives are definitely buzzing (listened with a stethoscope)... one may be lost, as I could hear nothing from it. Tonight, we're going way down in the teens with high winds. A hard winter to be sure, but we'll see how it goes and I promise to keep you posted. All hives have entry feeders on them.

Fred

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

Hi guys..

Thought I'd share that the snow went down to around 3' deep and the air was a scorching 40 degrees.... I checked on the bee hives and at least 50% are alive and kicking... they were taking cleaning flights from my two strongest hives.

If they continue to make it, I'll have a great year. Last winter was a total loss, so, I'm hopeful.

I'll know more when it really starts warming up.

[gardengirl72]

Thanks for the update Fred. You've got me wanting warm tea and honey.

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

two days ago... temps soared to 60 deg. F.

The bees were busy... two hives were very active, removing their dead and doing cleaning flights.

The other two hives were non-active

Then, to top it off... temps shot down to 29 deg. F. in less than 8 hours!

This strangs bees that are out of the hive, all followed by 57 mile an hour wind gusts.

Last winter, the hive tops blew off in a storm, this year, they are well tied down.

These weather dynamics are a huge test. One hive that was showing no activity, was consuming their sugar water, so something is going on there... We'll see when spring truly arrives.

One hive that is humming... is of the survivor, super bee type.

The other is of the angsty super angry sort...

We shall see what we shall see....

Hot tea and honey Patti? Why that's what I'm having at this very moment... RAW honey no less :}

[HomesteadBaker]

Fred, wasn't that some wild wind the other day??? We had lights flickering and large branches coming down everywhere. And now back to below freezing temps and getting more snow? I don't remember a winter with this much snow in quite some time... definitely going to be some spring flooding around here!

[rdsaltpower]

I attended my first meeting this week. Got to hear a state rep. from the WV beekeepers assoc. He along with others in state have started a Wv queens breeding program and hope to provide some local queen stock here. He was very informative and put on a good program. At the end of the meeting I decided to join the Corridor G Beekeepers Association. They meet monthly. I plan to contact some members and talk bees with them Then hopefully I can get someone to come to my place and have a look around. We will see what happens. :)

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

I'm so glad to read that you've joined a bee keeper's association!

They will get you up to speed on local issues also. I hope you've already made arrangements for your stock and equipment? When the spring bloom begins, bees explode into action and reproduction...

Aside from having your own bees and benefiting from honey and pure wax from the caps, the environment is vastly improved by their presence.

Our blueberry crop last year was triple what it was the year before. That's just one of many areas where the presence of our own bees had an immediate and obvious effect.

Is your association working with the survivor bees also?
What lines of queens are they working with in your area?

I wish you the very best of luck with your new venture and hope to hear lots of great things!

Take care!

Fred

www.FredsFineFowl.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F33-fbeammU When my bees left!

[gardenjoinery]

This is great to know. We lost our bees last year, to mites I think. We are too busy this year to restart, but we want to get back into it and we don't want to treat.

[JudyH]

I saw this post and since my sister has plans to get her beehive started this year, I decided to open it and take a read. WOW so much information and so many links, videos, etc! I am going to send her a link to this so she can read all of the info that everyone has shared.

[JudyH]

Today's the day....

I'm driving over to my sister's house this morning. Her bees are supposed to arrive at the post office this morning and my sister is at work until around 1 or 2 PM. The post office closes at 12 Noon. So DH and I are going to pick them up for her.

I'm bringing my camera so I can take pics of her placing the bees in the hive (I guess what is what you call it). We're excited!!! I'll try to post some pics tonight if we get home early enough.

[Aspen]

I'm glad I found this thread. I plan on adding bees next year, so I will order the bees in the fall. That will give me time to get everything set up and ready to go.

Fred, your info in awesome. Thank you.

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

And you are most welcome... glad you found something useful here!

Best of luck with your honey bee venture next year... Here in the State of Pennsylvania, the honey bees held up pretty well, considering we had near record snow fall and very long winter. Of course it also snowed in April...

Tough winter hearty bees are called for around here.

[gardengirl72]

Fred, I could have sworn I saw a bee this afternoon. Do you think they are living somewhere on my property or a lot near by? Also, how far or how close does a beehive need to be, to be of benefit to me? I'm on 3/4 of an acre.
Thanks

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

Hi Patti...

I want to start by saying that the Bee Movie, though it is entertaining, is a lie regarding jobs within the hive and who leaves... you know, all those "guys" in their flight gear, forming up to bzzzzzzz out of the hive like heroes?

That would be the actual job of the most senior and experienced female bees in the hive. They are the back bone of honey, pollen and nectar collection and delivery. Drones (male bees) do absolutely nothing to benefit the hive.. they sit around watching the babes and eating the hive resources, simply hoping to take part in some new queens virgin flight.

Ok, now that I have that out in the open... the female honey bee, on a warm day, forages as far as 3 miles from the hive. So consider all the area within a three mile radius of your garden Patti and the hive could be anywhere within that zone. You would see strong representation from a hive say 1 mile away. Bees exploit the closest resources first. Including robbing honey from a nearby sparsely populated hive.

This time of year, scouts are out all over and they are very hungry and desperate for resources, as many plants have not yet bloomed. This is critical for both bees and plants, they must bee active (bees) and bloom (plants) at the same time in order to survive.

At the regional bee keeper meeting, I found it laughable (no one else saw the humor apparently) that for organic apiary status, only organic crops may be grown within a two mile radius of the certified hive. So.. idiotic Fred wants to know how that works? I mean, being that they fly 3 miles? I drew some stern looks from heavily invested keepers.

Ok, I'll shut up.. for the organic keepers sake... My suggestion.. and it wasn't popular, was to sample comb, as it's a history of all the materials the worker (those which leave the hive) have consumed and been exposed to in any quantity. Isn't this something they really want to know? More stern looks... oy.. ok, Fred gets coffee and sits quietly waiting for the next guest speaker...

Fred.. humble "new" bee keeper
www.FredsFineFowl.com

[Kittikity]

Isn't all bee keeping organic? Are there synthetic flowers now with synthetic pollen and synthetic necter?

Oh, and kudos to you.. I love when people question the status quo..

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

For honey to be certified organic, the bees must gather from and pollinate only certified organic crops.

Unfortunately, when an apiary is near a field of crops where the farmer is using genetically engineered crops and produce, then organic may not be assigned to the honey from those bees.

There is no shortage of GE crops out there.... so, here in my State when a apiary applies for organic certification, the dept of agriculture gps plots the apiary, assuming it's not a mobile system. And then checks farm activity in the vicinity of that apiary.

Unless those agricultural lands/crops are organic, then the apiary can not claim organic status.

My farm neighbor, is doing round-up corn.. this eliminated my chances at organic status. Two miles down the road, another farmer has chemically treated 200 acres in preparation for the introduction/planting of his new engineered crops. I have no prayer here, for having organic anything, save for my own eggs and poultry... everything else is well out of my control.

Farmers are given breaks if they utilize crops which have been altered to grow better with less irrigation... the round up corn is a freak of nature... this corn grows with weeds all around it... then I watched them drive through all those acres spraying round-up on everything.. the corn was the only thing which survived.

So.. in answer to your question... nope, all honey is not organic. Best I can do here, is to produce raw honey. Not to be confused with organic.

Sue Bee honey for example... farrrrr from organic. It's also dead. By dead, I mean super processed and blended so you can't even tell what type of honey it is... here, I can tell the honey by taste, ahhh, clover honey... oy! Golden rod honey..... mmmmm, wild flower....

There was this guy at a honey tasting event, who could tell the type of fruit the bees had been associated with.. truly amazing. Obviously the bees sample from several plants at once, but there is always some dominant flower/crop they are building resources from.

White clover.. I have acres of it... provide for my bees all summer long. Purple clover is almost no use to them, as their tongues can't reach the nectar. Buyers freaked out over my clover honey and we sold out.... around 260 lbs of honey... that's very small scale. Wish it had been organic.

Hope this answers your question?

Fred