Hr 875

[mos6507]

GardenGirl, how do you feel about HR 875? If it doesn't ring a bell, a quick google search will reveal how it could be of supreme importance of backyard gardeners.

[HomesteadBaker]

mos6507, in addition to HR875, you should check out HR 814 and HR 1105, too. Very dangerous stuff here!

[Kevin]

GardenGirl, how do you feel about HR 875? If it doesn't ring a bell, a quick google search will reveal how it could be of supreme importance of backyard gardeners.

Hey mmos6507, I too would love to hear Patti's take on this. I am not trying to hyjack your thread ,but a congressional hearing is scheduled on this bill tomorrow,March 11. I personally have already emailed my representitive. This bill is nothing more than big business burying the little guy with overregulation under the guise of "safety" .Thanks For posting this, Kevin

[gardengirl72]

It is bullshit like HR 875 that makes us all slaves to big agriculture. I hate them with every fiber of my being. It is the one thing that really scares me (I grew up in Harlem, nothing scares me) and pisses me off.

I hate all regulation. My friend and Poultry Partner is more regulation friendly then I am, I would love to get him in on this.

People don't understand how important the Farm Bill and these other laws congress creates truly are. But those that know me know that everything I do is Illegal where I live. I believe if a law is unjust it must be broken.

Some day they will listen to me, but for now, I will just say I hate this crap.

Also, I am anti political and keep politics, partisanship etc. off the boards. I live in Massachusetts "Don't Tread on Me."

[MoniDew]

I guess I just can't resist adding my two cents here.

I'm flabbergasted that I could soon potentially be living in a country that wouldn't allow backyard gardening and food production for one's own family! If my memory serves, that's how this country was founded!

The stranglehold that agri-biz has on the government is unfathomable!

[Kevin]

I guess I just can't resist adding my two cents here.

I'm flabbergasted that I could soon potentially be living in a country that wouldn't allow backyard gardening and food production for one's own family! If my memory serves, that's how this country was founded!

The stranglehold that agri-biz has on the government is unfathomable!

Monica, It may be worse than even that. From what I've been reading this bill could conceivably make all organic growing methods illegal for business or personal use. Suposedly all it will take is to have some beaurocrat lable compost or natural manures as contaminants ,and therefore a threat to public safety.

[Sinfonian]

I must be completely ignorant on this. But there is no way they will outlaw home gardening. This country needs more of it, not less.

[Uke_Mochi]

I've been poring over the text of the bill for a few days now, as I can, to try to find the bit that prohibits individuals from growing their own produce. I've seen plenty of verbiage regarding "food production facilities":"(14) FOOD PRODUCTION FACILITY- The term `food production facility' means any farm, ranch, orchard, vineyard, aquaculture facility, or confined animal-feeding operation."

I am interpreting this as regulations regarding working farms, or other establishments that produce products that then get shipped all over the place. The whole driving force behind this is to avoid another fiasco like what happened with the peanut industry. They want to be able to trace products to their origins, which is understandable...

Has anyone else read the bill in it's entirety that may be able to give a more educated view on this? I can definitely see where the inference may be made that "any farm" could be interpreted as your own backyard, but it smacks a little of alarmist to me.

I don't intend to sell my own produce. I'm pretty sure that most of the farmers at my local market have to hold some form of registration or at least liability insurance to protect themselves from the (slight) chance that something could get contaminated...

I'm hoping that the powers that be have better things to be doing than policing hobby vegetable growers! Now, making the CAFO's and the like be a little more accountable for what they're doing? I'm all for it!

[Kevin]

I've been poring over the text of the bill for a few days now, as I can, to try to find the bit that prohibits individuals from growing their own produce. I've seen plenty of verbiage regarding "food production facilities":"(14) FOOD PRODUCTION FACILITY- The term `food production facility' means any farm, ranch, orchard, vineyard, aquaculture facility, or confined animal-feeding operation."

I am interpreting this as regulations regarding working farms, or other establishments that produce products that then get shipped all over the place. The whole driving force behind this is to avoid another fiasco like what happened with the peanut industry. They want to be able to trace products to their origins, which is understandable...

Has anyone else read the bill in it's entirety that may be able to give a more educated view on this? I can definitely see where the inference may be made that "any farm" could be interpreted as your own backyard, but it smacks a little of alarmist to me.

I don't intend to sell my own produce. I'm pretty sure that most of the farmers at my local market have to hold some form of registration or at least liability insurance to protect themselves from the (slight) chance that something could get contaminated...

I'm hoping that the powers that be have better things to be doing than policing hobby vegetable growers! Now, making the CAFO's and the like be a little more accountable for what they're doing? I'm all for it!

Look, I absolutetly refuse to participate in a political arguement on Patti's Forum . I will however suggest that you google HR 875 And see what comes up .The web is on fire over this . Yes I have read the proposed bill and, no I don't trust the discretion of appointed administrators , considering big AG may very well be appointing them.

[Uke_Mochi]

Look, I absolutetly refuse to participate in a political arguement on Patti's Forum . I will however suggest that you google HR 875 And see what comes up .The web is on fire over this . Yes I have read the proposed bill and, no I don't trust the discretion of appointed administrators , considering big AG may very well be appointing them.


Please understand that I was in no way looking to start a political argument. I just like to be informed before I get behind anything. I agree that the web is aflame over this proposed legislation, as it gets over a great many things.

Personally, I am going to write to my state rep. That usually makes a difference, especially with the current environment.

As my father so aptly put it, this could be the biggest political faux pas since prohibition... and history showed how much of the general population got behind that!

Again, please understand that I was merely looking for a fact check.

[Kevin]

Please understand that I was in no way looking to start a political argument. I just like to be informed before I get behind anything. I agree that the web is aflame over this proposed legislation, as it gets over a great many things.

Personally, I am going to write to my state rep. That usually makes a difference, especially with the current environment.

As my father so aptly put it, this could be the biggest political faux pas since prohibition... and history showed how much of the general population got behind that!

Again, please understand that I was merely looking for a fact check.

Sorry , You are entitled to your opinion .I did come on a little strong there.I do however tend to agree with your dad. Kevin

[Uke_Mochi]

no worries! I agree with him, too!;)

[Growing Boy]

Indeed the internet and the forums are a bit inflamed by this one. Yes, the language is quite broad which seems to be the most frightening issue for most people. On a practical note though, does anyone really believe that the federal government is going to send inspectors all over the countryside looking for backyard gardens when they neither have the money or the manpower to effectively monitor the bulk of the FOOD PROCESSING INDUSTRY?Which, I may be naive, I believe this bill is truly about.
American's trust in their food supply is a very great issue in this country after the rash of deadly outbreaks of food borne illnesses in the past few years. This bill, I believe is more an effort to shore up that confidence than an evil corporate conspiracy to put small growers (which actually produce the bulk of our fresh produce, not corporate farms) and farmers markets out of business.
While I believe that less regulation is generally better (except in the case of banks and financial institutions?) than more, this one doesn't really scare me. For that matter neither does NAIS.
Just my opinion after reading the bill and a few days of research.

[shebear]

Well I don't see just anyone making liquor. You can make beer but not liquor. It's a food product really but has been regulated to the point that the everyday Joe can't make any for his own consumption. Why?

And yes I do believe the government would misuse our money do hunt around private individual's property. Why don't you? Have you not seen abuse of power is your life?

This bill is a contol issue......not a safety issue!

[Uke_Mochi]

As I mentioned in a previous post... I'm going to write to my state's rep. The bill was moved into committee yesterday (which tends to be really bad for the general public who wants to know what's going on - they tend to deliberate behind closed doors). Here is a link where you can see if your state has a rep in one of the deliberating committees: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-875&tab=committees

Let them know that we are paying attention!!!!!

[Kevin]

Indeed the internet and the forums are a bit inflamed by this one. Yes, the language is quite broad which seems to be the most frightening issue for most people. On a practical note though, does anyone really believe that the federal government is going to send inspectors all over the countryside looking for backyard gardens when they neither have the money or the manpower to effectively monitor the bulk of the FOOD PROCESSING INDUSTRY?Which, I may be naive, I believe this bill is truly about.
American's trust in their food supply is a very great issue in this country after the rash of deadly outbreaks of food borne illnesses in the past few years. This bill, I believe is more an effort to shore up that confidence than an evil corporate conspiracy to put small growers (which actually produce the bulk of our fresh produce, not corporate farms) and farmers markets out of business.
While I believe that less regulation is generally better (except in the case of banks and financial institutions?) than more, this one doesn't really scare me. For that matter neither does NAIS.
Just my opinion after reading the bill and a few days of research.

Bruce, You may find this hard to believe, but quite a few small farmers/ green market vendors are currently only staying in business by depending on loopholes in our present food safety laws. The current laws make it almost impossible to stay in compliance for the small operators.The current laws are a small business nightmare , and now The government want to create more regulation and include home growers(personal consumption Gardeners) under these new regulations. Also as far as the government checking on private gardens , Don't assume they won't ,especially with the enormity of the proposed first offense fines.Kevin

[Growing Boy]

Well I don't see just anyone making liquor. You can make beer but not liquor. It's a food product really but has been regulated to the point that the everyday Joe can't make any for his own consumption. Why?

And yes I do believe the government would misuse our money do hunt around private individual's property. Why don't you? Have you not seen abuse of power is your life?

This bill is a contol issue......not a safety issue!

In the last 8 years I have seen the second greatest abuse of power in my lifetime. (The first being Watergate and many others trickle down before and after that.) That said the present administration is trying hard to undo the damage. ( Just a stray thought. After asking for organic vegetables be served in the White House why would the president sign a bill endangering organic food production?)
Yes it is a control issue. Control over the safety of the food supply in this country.
For a look at how the legislators see it here's a good linkhttp://durbin.senate.gov/showRelease.cfm?releaseId=308982
You'll notice the bill is sponsored by Ted Kennedy. Hardly a lackey of Mega- Agribiz.
I'm not totally against all government power. I hope there out there snooping out Meth Labs and wing nut gun freaks. (Before anyone goes off on me, I OWN guns.) They have better things to do than go after small farmers. Speaking of which, the average farm in this country is 181 acres. Again hardly Mega-agribiz.
The government has the legal power to take every 18 year old male and put them in the military but they don't even though our troop strength is woefully low and over stressed. Why? The public wouldn't stand for it and I don't think, with the ever increasing interest and popularity of the local food movement the public would stand for their access to their favorite farmer's market destroyed.
Finally, I know many folks that have been making their own liquor for years and very fine liquor it is.

[Growing Boy]

Bruce, You may find this hard to believe, but quite a few small farmers/ green market vendors are currently only staying in business by depending on loopholes in our present food safety laws. .Kevin

Kevin- so far in the network of market farmers that I deal with this bill is a non-issue. Market farming by nature is a subsistence activity. Nobody would choose it as a livelihood to make money. I have a nursery license and a sales tax license. It's a pain in the a$$. I mentioned to my wife that in Colorado where I'm origionally from it was illegal to sell jams and jellies, baked goods etc. without making them in a certified food service kitchen. She just laughed. Not round here.
I'm not saying this bill is a particularly good bill as it stands but I also don't think it's a spector of evil either.
It's now in committee. Let's see what the final draft is. There's certainly enough people watching it.;)

[Kevin]

Kevin- so far in the network of market farmers that I deal with this bill is a non-issue. Market farming by nature is a subsistence activity. Nobody would choose it as a livelihood to make money. I have a nursery license and a sales tax license. It's a pain in the a$$. I mentioned to my wife that in Colorado where I'm origionally from it was illegal to sell jams and jellies, baked goods etc. without making them in a certified food service kitchen. She just laughed. Not round here.
I'm not saying this bill is a particularly good bill as it stands but I also don't think it's a spector of evil either.
It's now in committee. Let's see what the final draft is. There's certainly enough people watching it.;)

Well bruce, I am a small scale fisherman who sells his product directly to the public, in small green markets and flea markets . And I too used to think the same way as your wife .Not around here ,I don't need a certified commissary to report to . I can use the city water from my home to wash my hands in my concession.I don't .need to be a licenced food safety professional . I don't need to spend 3000 dollars a year in licenses from 4 different agencies. Not around Here. Are you kidding me , If we weren't in complete compliance for even one day ,my competition would have an AG inspector on us within the hour. The small market vendors I know need more regulation , like they need a hole in their head. Kevin

[Growing Boy]

Kevin- I agree totally that the last thing small businesses need is more regulation. I'm just not convinced that's what this bill is aimed at.
I'm not a believer in " just because they can, they will." I could be wrong. We shall see.

[Kevin]

I'm not a believer in " just because they can, they will."

Well, all I can say to that is , "I was born at night ,not last night" ,Kevin