Alternative Livestock (Quail)

[gardengirl72]

I think it is brilliant to use Quail as a chicken alternative, especially if it skirts laws and codes. Please let us all know about how to raise these birds.

[Golem in the Gears]

Cortunix require no more care than chickens do ...but they mature faster, produce more eggs, need less food and space, and have more uses than chickens, 10 Cortunix can be dressed out in about the same time it takes to dress out a chicken and it's really not much more work at all,it takes about 10 birds give or take for a family of four. 4 quail eggs are about equal to a large chicken egg, An average six-ounce skinless quail contains about 123 calories, 40 percent of the recommended daily allowance (RDA) of protein, 50 percent niacin, 30 percent vitamin B6, and 28 percent of iron. The same bird has only 1.2 grams of saturated fat, 1.2 grams monounsaturated fat, 1.1 grams polyunsaturated fat, and 64 grams of cholesterol. I recommend starting off with a dozen breeders with a 3:1 female/male ratio, this seems to be the standard and works well. Coturnix will produce 1lbs. of eggs on slightly less than 2lbs. of feed..where as chickens need almost 3lbs... Like most fowl they do taste like chicken but you really have to try them to understand the difference. But! Unlike chickens, quail are only good layers for about a year and their natural life span is only like 3 years and egg production drops significantly after the first 8 months of laying, so the only real way to go IMHO is full scale good part is you can do it all in a very small space.. a 5-6 tiered battery of cages will do the job nicely... Consider this: a hen will lay 5-6 eggs a week, a 2' x 2' x 10" cage split down the center will comfortably house 2 trio's, so a 6 tiered battery of these cages will hold 24 hen's, 24 hens laying 5 eggs a week equals 120 eggs divide that by 4 (the amount of quail eggs it takes to equal an average sized chicken egg) and you get 30! All that using just 4 sq. ft. of floor space...

To Be Continued :)

[plantoneonme]

Here is an excellent link that Golem directed me to. It has tons of information on the quail...

http://www.aquaponicshq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107

Here is a site that teaches you how to make your own incubator...

http://members.aol.com/CGFARMS/buildincubator.html

A brooder idea from Mother Earth News...

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1977-01-01/A-Quick-and-Simple-Outdoor-Brooder.aspx

Can you tell I am seriously interested in these birds LOL. Kim

[Golem in the Gears]

Have a look into these folks.. http://www.lakecumberlandgamebirds.com/index1.html
I think I might give em a go here in a few weeks.

[gardengirl72]

Golem, can you tell us a little bit about their behavior? Do they make a lot of noise? What is their natural diet? Do they scratch the ground like chickens?

I have many questions.

[Golem in the Gears]

They don't make a lot of noise, they do chirp a bit and the males do crow but not often and its no rooster crow! Their noise level is comparable to a parakeet... They do scratch like chickens and you have to plan ahead for this a little, most folks put a water trough on one side of the cage and a feed trough on the other just outside the cage and just within reach of the birds. I'm not sure about their natural diet but I use chick starter 24% and add oyster shell and grit.. all in all, they are basically just mini chickens... Please feel free to ask as many questions as you like.. I love answering them :)

[gardengirl72]

Do they nest, roost or both? Have you had success creating a breeding population? How did you hatch them? Do you think Bantam Chickens will brood them?

I could go on...

[Golem in the Gears]

Do they nest, roost or both? Have you had success creating a breeding population? How did you hatch them? Do you think Bantam Chickens will brood them?

I could go on...

They nest but rarely go broody so ive never provided them with a nesting box, The ones i have now I purchased from a lady on craigs list and she had purchased the eggs online and had a friend incubate them, when i got there they where in what looked like a old makeshift rabbit cage and to be perfectly honest with you they where in pretty poor condition, lots of fighting and missing feathers.. was pretty sad.. I really only wanted a trio to fool around with and ended up purchasing 8 (was all the cash i had on me) just because I couldn't stand to leave them there :( I ended up with 3 females and they are in with my least aggressive male.. I haven't incubated any of their eggs because well... they are of poor quality, not all that large and a bit mean spirited for a long term breeding project... I am shopping around for some quality breeding stock now, and hope to be incubating some jumbo cortunix eggs in the very near future :) These birds have been a wonderful experience tho and even know they aren't the greatest they have served their purpose well and are still giving me good eggs... I am told that a broody banty will hatch em, key is to remove any chicken eggs from the nest, because of the size difference it will cause the quail eggs to flux in temps and lower hatch rates... next? :D

[gardengirl72]

I just ordered some eggs! We shall see what happens!

[RogueAPBT]

Are your birds pretty tame/calm with handling, feeding and watering, Golem? How do you keep yours? (tractor, flight cage/net, smaller cage?)

There, how's that? ;)

Cheryl

[Golem in the Gears]

I just ordered some eggs! We shall see what happens!

Thats so cool!... here's a article I dug up you might find useful, lots of good stuff if you google "Coturnix Quail Husbandry" also..

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/Stuff/FeatherFancier/FeathFancQuail.html

are you going to incubate them yourself? if so, what kind incubator do you use? and how are you planing to incorporate them into your current system? Is this a meat and eggs adventure or are you just going to keep your females for eggs.. I was kicking around some ideas over lunch with C.N.* just today about how I could/would incorporate my quail into a raised bed system and I'm curious as to your thoughts on it.. are you planning to raise them in breeding trios or a colony? I'm so happy you are giving quail a try, I really do enjoy the methods you employ on your little piece of the planet :D

* C.N. AKA Chicken Nugget my favorite little Red-Star hen with whom I often bounce my garden plans and ideas off of ;)

[gardengirl72]

Well, I talked it over with Rocket(my Grey flying auracana hen) and she thought that it was unfair that she and the girls made me so many eggs without any fun for them. So I figured I would try it. My theory is that they could work perfect in my system.

I was going to take half and put them under my broody banty Silk Butt and the other half I would try and artificially incubate them.

In terms of the long term, quite honestly, I may just eat them. Quail adds new variety to the homestead pallet. If I can produce a breeding population, (in the city I CAN NOT own a rooster), that would be an ideal population. But for now will simply be an experiment. If it works I will shoot and write about it. If not, I will try again.

I was looking for a simple project for the fall though. A small lightweight bird could be a bunch of fun though. Thank you so much for encourageing me into this project.

[Golem in the Gears]

If you don't like the quail there's always pigeon (squab) and or dove. My grandfather raised Pigeon's and I remember some where just as big as the chickens if not bigger.. Tasty too :D quail roosters are not very loud and sound like your everyday bird generally... they have a whistle peep thing.. hardly a "crow" and nothing like a chicken, my Hen's (chickens) make more fuss and racket letting the world know how proud they are they just laid an egg than a whole gang of male coturnix lol chickens also crow allot!! Quail not so much... If you decide to breed, maybe we can swap some eggs.. Keep the gene pool fresh ;)

[Golem in the Gears]

Are your birds pretty tame/calm with handling, feeding and watering, Golem? How do you keep yours? (tractor, flight cage/net, smaller cage?)

There, how's that? ;)

Cheryl

Actually my birds are getting much calm/tamer then they where at first..
You should handle coturnix as little as possible, they lay a large egg for a little bird and it makes up a 3rd of their body weight, also their egg shells are not as hard as a chickens and you can easily injure them.

Right now I have a few in one of my breeder/grow off cages and a few in a rabbit grow off cage:) I just moved and its been kinda hectic.. I posted some pics on page 1 and 2 of this thread. http://www.gardengirltv.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=39&page=2

[gardengirl72]

Personally, I am interested simply for the variety and the look on childrens faces. If I can build a breeding population, it will be a huge sustainable victory. The only question I have, will Walter process the meat birds for me?

[RogueAPBT]

Thanks, Golem, for the link to the pics...they look great! I asked about their temperament because my former boss used to raise, I think it was "button" quail? Blue/gray ones, and those birds never did tame down. I loved the sound they make, though...soothing and I doubt the neighbors would notice or complain.

PS to Patti: you know the secret...just offer to pay him in quail for his table, lol.

Cheryl

[plantoneonme]

CN=chicken nugget! I am laughing my tail feathers off!!!

When I was growing up I always wanted a pet pig and a chicken...I wanted to call them bacon and eggs LoL.

Thanks for the cool link also.

Kim



Thats so cool!... here's a article I dug up you might find useful, lots of good stuff if you google "Coturnix Quail Husbandry" also..

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/Stuff/FeatherFancier/FeathFancQuail.html

are you going to incubate them yourself? if so, what kind incubator do you use? and how are you planing to incorporate them into your current system? Is this a meat and eggs adventure or are you just going to keep your females for eggs.. I was kicking around some ideas over lunch with C.N.* just today about how I could/would incorporate my quail into a raised bed system and I'm curious as to your thoughts on it.. are you planning to raise them in breeding trios or a colony? I'm so happy you are giving quail a try, I really do enjoy the methods you employ on your little piece of the planet :D

* C.N. AKA Chicken Nugget my favorite little Red-Star hen with whom I often bounce my garden plans and ideas off of ;)

[plantoneonme]

Just so I can picture it in my head...how large is a dressed out quail compared to a store bought cornish hen?

Kim

[Golem in the Gears]

I pulled this from another site I frequent often! Called Aquaponics HQ, its a wonderful site, just a couple blokes down under and 99% of the site is aquaponics but there's a great thread on Coturnix thats worth a look. Also if your interested in aquaponics, these guy's really know their stuff.. Feel free to tell em Golem sent ya :)

Pic is 3 Coturnix, halved.. I think he said marinated in herbs and EVO, pan fried for color then baked to perfection...

[plantoneonme]

YUMMY! Can you tell me it this is a dinner plate or serving plate? Kim



I pulled this from another site I frequent often! Called Aquaponics HQ, its a wonderful site, just a couple blokes down under and 99% of the site is aquaponics but there's a great thread on Coturnix thats worth a look. Also if your interested in aquaponics, these guy's really know their stuff.. Feel free to tell em Golem sent ya :)

Pic is 3 Coturnix, halved.. I think he said marinated in herbs and EVO, pan fried for color then baked to perfection...

[Ani]

If you compare the onions and olives, I would guess its a dinner plate.
From what I remember of quail growing up, they would have about half the meat of a cornish hen.

My cousin used to raise quail in an atrium in the center of her house in Phoenix, AZ. They were very clean, quiet, and self sufficient as far as I remember. There is no way a neighbor would be able to hear them unless you put the cages up against their house or something :)

I do remember some difficulty trying to catch particular ones from the bunch, and a few chaotic moments when several got free inside the house lol. I suppose with cages outside you wouldn't have that problem.

[plantoneonme]

If you compare the onions and olives, I would guess its a dinner plate.
From what I remember of quail growing up, they would have about half the meat of a cornish hen.

My cousin used to raise quail in an atrium in the center of her house in Phoenix, AZ. They were very clean, quiet, and self sufficient as far as I remember. There is no way a neighbor would be able to hear them unless you put the cages up against their house or something :)

I do remember some difficulty trying to catch particular ones from the bunch, and a few chaotic moments when several got free inside the house lol. I suppose with cages outside you wouldn't have that problem.

Duh, I didn't notice the olives to guess size...I was too busy looking at the delicious quail. I am thinking that 2 would be enough for dinner for dh and myself.

I always wanted an atrium in my house to grow plants and raise birds.

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

Ok, I'm new to this forum and would like to not start off stepping on toes...

However, I'm reading the posts regarding quail and realize quickly, that my personal philosophies are apart from those being posted here?

I'm reading about the quail and numbers... the stats, how many cages may be stacked, how little food is required, what the output is... My friends... this is exactly how battery operations began. "how little space they require?"

My personal approach is always to accomodate the species I'm dealing with in the best possible conditions, this effects overall health and well being for the animals producing and those receiving the produce (eggs for example).

Quail are natural ground dwellers, are runners that can fly. Form follows function here and they have different diets than chickens... they are not pets and are at times, very high strung and easily stressed. I think, there is a thought line here, to simply look at them as food? I'm just asking people to step back and check your motivation with these interesting animals and their quality of life...

Chickens are, again in my opinion, superior for the chicken tractor... that is with the purpose of working soil and removing greens. Quail do not "work" the soil as chickens are apt to do. The feed conversion statement is too broad in scope, as many breeds of chickens are very efficient in their production vs intake. A single calculation may not be presented as "all chickens" in a statistic regarding chickens vs quail. If you are raising for eggs, then chickens are also wonderful pets (quail are not)...

My version of the chicken tractor, is to provide the birds (Patti's version is also like this), access to workable ground. So when "stacking cages" is part of the estimate on their use, we've departed from allowing birds to work fresh soil and now cause them to rely exclusively on rations provided in feeders. A mobile chicken tractor allows birds access to fresh ground, which will include bugs and lots of fresh air (thus reducing formulated feed requirements) as the tractor is relocated.

Everyone can and certainly will, do their own thing with the animals they care for. I'm just asking folks to step back and consider the life the birds will have and what your motivation is in keeping them? Free range eggs do not come from birds kept in stacked cages and the health benefits are then of course, not realized in the meat, nor the eggs.

If it were strictly about saving a dime, then there would be no reason to depart from the concentrated conditions the industry has already developed for rearing birds and extracting eggs.

This is a friendly comparison mind you... but I must say, chickens out do quail as a chicken tractor bird in every way. They do work the soil, remove grass and greens and you benefit from eating eggs from birds that have greens and a varitey or resources in their diet.

I can't wait to see Patti with her tiny quail!

[plantoneonme]

Thank you Fred for your input...all opinions are helpful. I am thinking of getting a few birds and keeping them in larger tractors. I would like the fresh eggs and am hopeful that the birds will have a good quality of life with me. I am not looking at production. In your opinion if you keep a small flock of say 6-8 birds, what is the best way then to keep them? I live on a tiny lot in the city and there is no way I would be allowed to keep chickens. Kim

[Golem in the Gears]

Great post Fred, and for the most part I agree with you.. I guess because this thread was spill over from the critters in the city thread I was more focused on the stealth aspect and posted the minimal requirements. We are discussing Coturnix as an alternative to chickens in the city. I don't free range/tractor or colony my quail because I don't have the space, I'm also a renter so you can see where some issues might be raised at the sight of chicken tractors full of chickens or quail or anything like it :) I love my birds, I raise them in a battery of cages under a shade tree in my backyard alongside my rabbits, I raise quail for meat and eggs and I do it as a hobby. My birds are not neglected in any way and are no way near the minimal requirements in any category... That being said In the egg and meat department and many other areas I believe quail are far superior to chickens, in the time it takes to see your first egg from a chicken I've will have raised 3 generations of quail and will have had eggs for months! all in a 4-6 Sq. ft. space on 1/3 the food and water! Food, water and space being the three most important factors for consideration when comparing the two IMO. That chickens till the soil and help debug/weed the garden is of little meaning to me as a city dweler, my garden is in containers :p I do have pet chickens at work, and they are aloud to free range 10 hrs a day.. 5 days a week and they are my babies, so I do get what you are saying and I welcome your input as well as your opinions.. Welcome to the forums

Golem

[gardengirl72]

See Fred has all sorts of land to free range his birds. He has a great youtube video on his Emu's. He is also "poultry whisperer", so to speak. My eggs arrived while I was in Portland and my husband and daughter hooked up a incubation system.

I am afraid they may have been cooked already. I have never incubated anything so all the help on this would be great. They are under a light with the temperature around 98 degrees, I have some water in the box, and some wet newspaper. I have been turning them a few times a day. I can't seem to figure out how to candle the eggs either.

[gardengirl72]

I tried to candle them today, I didn't see much of anything. I think I blew it.

I ordered an eight egg incubator with eggs from ebay. I hope I don't screw up.

[PJJ]

Patti,

Please don't give up on your eggs. I'm sure glad I didn't give up on mine. Now I have 14 beautiful little babies.

It may be a little early to candle them. I don't know what the time frame is for quail.

GOOD LUCK!!

Penny

[Garden Green]

I know this thread has been dormat for a while, but I wanted to add my two cents in.

My father bred and raised red Bob White's, yellow Bob White's and Pharohs (he did button quail, too but that is a different post) and bred them for years. He bred them until he got the size he wanted and sold off the birds he didn't want as breding stock to local hunters looking to train their bird dogs (he didn't have a flight pen but it still worked apparently). It only took him about 3 to 4 years to get the size he wanted.

He kept them in raised pens built with chicken wire and wood that were about 4 feet off the ground. For water, he took a pvc pipe and sliced sections out of the top or the top quarter of the pipe had been sliced off from end to end and put two end caps on it and wired it to the outside of the cage for water, it didn't get pooped in and stayed a lot cleaner than other methods. As the pens were fairly large, he was able to house about 20 to 30 birds per pen with about 5 pens on the property.

We used to eat quail on a regular basis. Gathering eggs was a nightly thing. We had two incubators that were running half the year. When prices started going through the roof for feed in his area, they just ate them until they were gone and quit raising them, unfortunately.

They were actually less work than the chickens in my opinion and less chance of getting pecked by aggressive roosters. ;)

He also raised phesants which were very very yummy to eat as well. He had a local variety and also a South American one that was just gorgeous to look at with all the colors the male sported (we didn't eat him).

I'll have to get his recipes to share with you all.

We had an incubator that was specifically for quail eggs, it kept them at 99.5 degrees for the forced air ones and 102 for the still air ones. The incubator should be in a room that stays around the same temp so no putting this one out in the garage. Humidity should be around 60% and this needs to go up the last days before hatching or the birds won't survive. The really bad part is that a good thunderstorm can kill your eggs. The eggs must be turned a minimum of 3 times a day hence the automatic turner and the turning should stop a couple of days before they hatch.

It takes about 20 to 22 days for Bob White's to hatch. Once they start poking out, leave them alone, they *must* work their way out of the shells on their own or they will die. Let these guys dry. Once they are "poofy" they are ready to be removed from the incubator and into a brooder. After about day 25, discard any eggs that didn't hatch, they probably won't.

We took a lamp with a reflector commonly used for reptile heating and clamped it on a cardboard box with feed and water and put a 75 to 100 watt light bulb for a homemade brooder and left them in there for about a week or so. Once they start getting to the point where they aren't falling all over themselves they are pretty much ready to go out into a small pen outside with a light in it.

We left the light in the pen and used it only at night to keep them from freezing to death and used it in the day if temps were low. We kept them in the outside brooder for about couple of weeks before putting them in their more perm home.

Be careful with the water, they can and will drown, we usually use a lid to a mayo jar for water initially.

If you need advice, I can always call my father and ask.

[Fred's Fine Fowl]

That's all great information... nice that you had that experience with your family...

The feed issue is a big one and costs are out of control. The ornamental varieties of pheasant as you mentioned are amazingly beautiful.

Anyway, glad to read about your quail set up.

[Garden Green]

I'm glad you found it helpful! Though I did forget to mention, make sure to put like a pie tin in the pen with them with sand so they can dust!

I'll shut up now.

GG

[crazy4yarnpamm]

I was just reading all the threads for the quail. What a lot of great informaiton. I have been thinking of making a set up for these for a while. I am wondering if it might be better to wait until spring to do this with winter coming up. Any thoughts on that. I am in the Bay Area, in Northern California so it doesn't get super cold here.

Patti, how did you last batch of eggs come out. I looked at the ones on ebay also and thought about that. My boys would love the experience of rasing them. We have our own little zoo already with over 30 critters.
Thanks for all the help.
Pamm

[gardengirl72]

I have failed at my first attempts at incubating eggs. But I am a determined person, this spring I will try again, or buy some day olds if I can.